Hallo Leute! Habe heute Abend festgestellt, daß unser Werkstättenstaubsauger (Dyson) als Naßsauger mißbraucht wurde. Der Staubbehälter war fast bis zur Häflte mit undefinierbare Flüssigkeit und mit mehr als einer Handvoll Glasscherben (großteils größer als Haselnüsse) angefüllt. Das entsprechende Schwammerln wird sich mit ziemlicher Sicherheit nicht melden. Hätte den dieser Intelligenzbolzen nicht wenigsten nach vollbrachter Schandtat den Behälter ausleeren können???? Ebenso auch meine Frage an jene, denen es aufgefallen ist. Kann ja nicht so schwer sein, diesen zumindestens auszuleeren, oder??? Statt dessen gibt es eine Disk auf der internen, wie ich zufällig erfahren habe. Braucht sich mittlerweile keiner mehr darum bemühen. Die Oberputze Hobbes hat es wieder einmal wie üblich erledigt. Ich habe Behälter, Abscheider, Schlauch und das Grundgerät so gut es ging ausgespühlt. Der HEPA-Filter muß jemand neu kaufen (ich selber habe unter Tags keine Zeit). Trocknen wird nicht mehr viel bringen, da dieser mit Sicherheit von innen heraus Schimmeln wird, daher komplett ersetzen. Aufgefallen ist es mir, als ich in der CNC-Fräse Späne absaugen wollte und sich plötzlich ein See um den Motor zu bilden begann. WIrklich 1A!! Das Gerät steht momentan im Hauptraum auf dem Kasten vor dem Whitboard zum Trocknen. Bitte derzeit nicht verwenden. Sobald der Schlauch außen trocken ist, muß ein Riß zumindestens mit Gaffa kurzfristig abgedichtet werden (habe ich mit schwarzem Edding markiert). Mit stinksauren Grüßen, Hobbes
I'm sorry to hear about your sour adventure with the vacuum cleaner, but when I read your message, I had to think about how stupid it is to have a gotten a dyson vacuum for the metalab instead of a wet and dry vacuum cleaner (shopvac and the likes). This reminds me of all the people that I've seen try to drive a philips screw with a flat tipped screw driver **sigh**. I haven't looked at whether there is a wet-dry vacuum at the metalab, and it doesn't matter if there is, a dyson just isn't smart to have in a place like the metalab. If for whatever X or Y reasons, it's not possible to have a vacuum that is more suitable for a hackerspace, how about slapping together a few junk parts to build a wet spill attachment <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrgSlbnjy-U> for the vacuum we already have? I understand your frustration, but I'm afraid unless we find a magical solution to eradicate the ability for humans to be stupid (or high) sometimes (which includes me too of course), we can only make the environment we share a bit more dumb proof to minimize losses and frustration... However I do agree that the vacuum has mainly suffered from some real lack of common sense, and we could also think a bit more about how we use the equipment with respect (towards the equipment and those who will use them after us). Keep up the good work Oberputze Hobbes! Joe 2014-07-14 2:00 GMT+02:00 Hobbes <Hobbes2009@hotmail.com>:
Hallo Leute!
Habe heute Abend festgestellt, daß unser Werkstättenstaubsauger (Dyson) als Naßsauger mißbraucht wurde. Der Staubbehälter war fast bis zur Häflte mit undefinierbare Flüssigkeit und mit mehr als einer Handvoll Glasscherben (großteils größer als Haselnüsse) angefüllt.
Das entsprechende Schwammerln wird sich mit ziemlicher Sicherheit nicht melden. Hätte den dieser Intelligenzbolzen nicht wenigsten nach vollbrachter Schandtat den Behälter ausleeren können????
Ebenso auch meine Frage an jene, denen es aufgefallen ist. Kann ja nicht so schwer sein, diesen zumindestens auszuleeren, oder??? Statt dessen gibt es eine Disk auf der internen, wie ich zufällig erfahren habe.
Braucht sich mittlerweile keiner mehr darum bemühen. Die Oberputze Hobbes hat es wieder einmal wie üblich erledigt. Ich habe Behälter, Abscheider, Schlauch und das Grundgerät so gut es ging ausgespühlt. Der HEPA-Filter muß jemand neu kaufen (ich selber habe unter Tags keine Zeit). Trocknen wird nicht mehr viel bringen, da dieser mit Sicherheit von innen heraus Schimmeln wird, daher komplett ersetzen.
Aufgefallen ist es mir, als ich in der CNC-Fräse Späne absaugen wollte und sich plötzlich ein See um den Motor zu bilden begann. WIrklich 1A!!
Das Gerät steht momentan im Hauptraum auf dem Kasten vor dem Whitboard zum Trocknen. Bitte derzeit nicht verwenden. Sobald der Schlauch außen trocken ist, muß ein Riß zumindestens mit Gaffa kurzfristig abgedichtet werden (habe ich mit schwarzem Edding markiert).
Mit stinksauren Grüßen, Hobbes
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Hi, We had shopvacs, but they are broken now. I don't know if the kärcher works but if it does it's a double fail that people do not use this one and instead break the household thing :( On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 03:28:48PM +0200, Joe Nassimian wrote:
I'm sorry to hear about your sour adventure with the vacuum cleaner, but when I read your message, I had to think about how stupid it is to have a gotten a dyson vacuum for the metalab instead of a wet and dry vacuum cleaner (shopvac and the likes). This reminds me of all the people that I've seen try to drive a philips screw with a flat tipped screw driver **sigh**. I haven't looked at whether there is a wet-dry vacuum at the metalab, and it doesn't matter if there is, a dyson just isn't smart to have in a place like the metalab.
If for whatever X or Y reasons, it's not possible to have a vacuum that is more suitable for a hackerspace, how about slapping together a few junk parts to build a wet spill attachment <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrgSlbnjy-U> for the vacuum we already have?
I understand your frustration, but I'm afraid unless we find a magical solution to eradicate the ability for humans to be stupid (or high) sometimes (which includes me too of course), we can only make the environment we share a bit more dumb proof to minimize losses and frustration...
However I do agree that the vacuum has mainly suffered from some real lack of common sense, and we could also think a bit more about how we use the equipment with respect (towards the equipment and those who will use them after us).
Keep up the good work Oberputze Hobbes!
Joe
2014-07-14 2:00 GMT+02:00 Hobbes <Hobbes2009@hotmail.com>:
Hallo Leute!
Habe heute Abend festgestellt, daß unser Werkstättenstaubsauger (Dyson) als Naßsauger mißbraucht wurde. Der Staubbehälter war fast bis zur Häflte mit undefinierbare Flüssigkeit und mit mehr als einer Handvoll Glasscherben (großteils größer als Haselnüsse) angefüllt.
Das entsprechende Schwammerln wird sich mit ziemlicher Sicherheit nicht melden. Hätte den dieser Intelligenzbolzen nicht wenigsten nach vollbrachter Schandtat den Behälter ausleeren können????
Ebenso auch meine Frage an jene, denen es aufgefallen ist. Kann ja nicht so schwer sein, diesen zumindestens auszuleeren, oder??? Statt dessen gibt es eine Disk auf der internen, wie ich zufällig erfahren habe.
Braucht sich mittlerweile keiner mehr darum bemühen. Die Oberputze Hobbes hat es wieder einmal wie üblich erledigt. Ich habe Behälter, Abscheider, Schlauch und das Grundgerät so gut es ging ausgespühlt. Der HEPA-Filter muß jemand neu kaufen (ich selber habe unter Tags keine Zeit). Trocknen wird nicht mehr viel bringen, da dieser mit Sicherheit von innen heraus Schimmeln wird, daher komplett ersetzen.
Aufgefallen ist es mir, als ich in der CNC-Fräse Späne absaugen wollte und sich plötzlich ein See um den Motor zu bilden begann. WIrklich 1A!!
Das Gerät steht momentan im Hauptraum auf dem Kasten vor dem Whitboard zum Trocknen. Bitte derzeit nicht verwenden. Sobald der Schlauch außen trocken ist, muß ein Riß zumindestens mit Gaffa kurzfristig abgedichtet werden (habe ich mit schwarzem Edding markiert).
Mit stinksauren Grüßen, Hobbes
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On 2014-07-14 13:28, Joe Nassimian wrote:
If for whatever X or Y reasons, it's not possible to have a vacuum that is more suitable for a hackerspace, how about slapping together a few junk parts to build a wet spill attachment <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrgSlbnjy-U> for the vacuum we already have?
when I heard about the issue in more detail now, I thought: why don't we build a much better vacuum cleaner ourselves? Actually I would want a cleaner with wet-capability myself. There is a good design, that employs liquid cleaning / gas washing of the air called "Orcy", that was presented to me. I envision a design, that combines the idea of the Dyson, a cyclone, for the coarse mud with the idea of the Orcy, a gas washer, for excellent fine filtering, if it's done right. For prototyping of the air-nozzels 3D-printing will work nicely and a sketch is in my head... Other requirements: *) very quiet *) robust & repairable *) relatively cheap By designing a good centrifugal fan and strapping standard vacuum cleaner tubes/hoses and floor-nozzles to a newly engineered body, this should be achievable. Regards, Armin
+1 On 14. Juli 2014 15:50:27 MESZ, Armin Faltl <armin.faltl@aon.at> wrote:
On 2014-07-14 13:28, Joe Nassimian wrote:
If for whatever X or Y reasons, it's not possible to have a vacuum that is more suitable for a hackerspace, how about slapping together
a
few junk parts to build a wet spill attachment <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrgSlbnjy-U> for the vacuum we already have?
when I heard about the issue in more detail now, I thought: why don't we build a much better vacuum cleaner ourselves? Actually I would want a cleaner with wet-capability myself. There is a good design, that employs liquid cleaning / gas washing of the air called "Orcy", that was presented to me.
I envision a design, that combines the idea of the Dyson, a cyclone, for the coarse mud with the idea of the Orcy, a gas washer, for excellent fine filtering, if it's done right. For prototyping of the air-nozzels 3D-printing will work nicely and a sketch is in my head...
Other requirements: *) very quiet *) robust & repairable *) relatively cheap
By designing a good centrifugal fan and strapping standard vacuum cleaner tubes/hoses and floor-nozzles to a newly engineered body, this should be achievable.
Regards, Armin
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I'm all for, but you make it sound like it's easy as pie. Proper cyclone modelling requires a few factors to be taken into account doesn't it? Like the suction pressure, size of the air inlet and outlet, and a few other parameters. It's enough mind abusing that people sometimes managed to write over 100 pages <http://monarch.qucosa.de/fileadmin/data/qucosa/documents/5333/data/diss.pdf> about this topic. And here is another dude <http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/cyclone_plan.cfm> that details the build process of a sawdust dust collector that uses cyclonic separation (the very object of inspiration for the dyson products). However I have never heard of orcy, neither seems google. Is it similar to the technology of those industrial cyclonic separators used to clean gas using a fluid that's injected into the cyclone? Anyways, I have two 1000W vacuum turbines that were pulled out of an industrial vacuum (a numatic I believe). I got them for a dust collection project I have in mind, don't know if a portable dust collector/vacuum can be designed to make use of them. If it does, it would mean more shelf space for me, a fun project to collaborate on, and a proper cleaning equipment for the lab ... However to reduce the noise, maybe as suggested earlier by Armin, a centrifugal fan would make meeting the requirements easier. Joe On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 3:53 PM, Sebastian Bachmann <me@free-minds.net> wrote:
+1
On 14. Juli 2014 15:50:27 MESZ, Armin Faltl <armin.faltl@aon.at> wrote:
On 2014-07-14 13:28, Joe Nassimian wrote:
If for whatever X or Y reasons, it's not possible to have a vacuum that is more suitable for a hackerspace, how about slapping together
a
few junk parts to build a wet spill attachment <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrgSlbnjy-U> for the vacuum we already have?
when I heard about the issue in more detail now, I thought: why don't we build a much better vacuum cleaner ourselves? Actually I would want a cleaner with wet-capability myself. There is a good design, that employs liquid cleaning / gas washing of the air called "Orcy", that was presented to me.
I envision a design, that combines the idea of the Dyson, a cyclone, for the coarse mud with the idea of the Orcy, a gas washer, for excellent fine filtering, if it's done right. For prototyping of the air-nozzels 3D-printing will work nicely and a sketch is in my head...
Other requirements: *) very quiet *) robust & repairable *) relatively cheap
By designing a good centrifugal fan and strapping standard vacuum cleaner tubes/hoses and floor-nozzles to a newly engineered body, this should be achievable.
Regards, Armin
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On 2014-07-14 21:11, Joe Nassimian wrote:
I'm all for, but you make it sound like it's easy as pie. Proper cyclone modelling requires a few factors to be taken into account doesn't it? Like the suction pressure, size of the air inlet and outlet, and a few other parameters. I've seen and semi-read dissertations about the subject and yes, there's a lot to it. But I've searched long enough, to find formulas, that allow dimensioning with a pocket calculator - I've done it before, actually for a vacuum cleaner to empty cans of wood ash. This works very well and can be scaled down a bit, if required.
However I have never heard of orcy, neither seems google. Is it similar to the technology of those industrial cyclonic separators used to clean gas using a fluid that's injected into the cyclone? maybe it's spelled Orky / no, it's the other way round: a jet of bubbles (that simply form) is injected into a bath of water (potentially with some tensides) by submerging a nozzle. The jet then forms a system of vortices in the bath, that make the bubble-trails longer and finer, so the contact area is maximized
Anyways, I have two 1000W vacuum turbines that were pulled out of an industrial vacuum (a numatic I believe). I got them for a dust collection project I have in mind, don't know if a portable dust collector/vacuum can be designed to make use of them. Sounds Good If it does, it would mean more shelf space for me, a fun project to collaborate on, and a proper cleaning equipment for the lab ... However to reduce the noise, maybe as suggested earlier by Armin, a centrifugal fan would make meeting the requirements easier. For a quick start of the project, one of the turbines should be fine. Once we know, the gas washer and the cyclone work, we can still optimize, by making it comfortable.
thanks!
Why dont we design a new Metalab where we don't need vacuum cleaners at all due to nano-engineered surfaces? Come on. Somebody fucked it up completely unnecessarily and that sucks because it doesnt just apply to vacuums but as well to tools and other things. That is why people move back home their stuff to find it in a sane state when needed.
I do agree with you Peter, I wasn't justifying anything, nor do I pretend that technology can solve a human problem. This has to do more with common sense and education. So what do you do now to solve it? Perform a psychological and mental screening of people before they enter the metalab? Or take on the role of a parent (or yoda) and lecture every person that does a mistake? Until we do, we can take steps to minimize the scope of mistakes possible. Having a dyson, which is intended for domestic cleaning, in a place like the metalab does not make sense to me. The dyson is not made for places like the metalab. That of course does not justify the misuse of the dyson. And it doesn't justify not being responsible after you do a mistake. The least humanly expected would have been to clean up the mess you create and learn a lesson from it. I'm sorry if I sounded like I was justifying things, which I'm not. And although I did think that Hobbes calling himself the Oberputze was funny, I did feel sorry for him for being in that very annoying situation. Now that being said, we do need a better cleaning equipment at the metalab, and this thread kind of turned into a motivator to build one. Armin, just let me know when you'll be working on it at the lab, and I'll show up with one of the turbines, apart from that, I'm not sure how else I can help. On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 1:45 PM, Peter Franck <vic@ccc.de> wrote:
Why dont we design a new Metalab where we don't need vacuum cleaners at all due to nano-engineered surfaces?
Come on. Somebody fucked it up completely unnecessarily and that sucks because it doesnt just apply to vacuums but as well to tools and other things. That is why people move back home their stuff to find it in a sane state when needed.
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we dont need a dyson, we need a milbi! http://www.milbi.de/graphics/hausenblas.jpg *scnr* no but seriously: We had a lot of vacs (at least 4) but for what i know only the dyson is left, maybe the kärcher shopvac works as well... there was a vac especially for the CNC, which is broken, then there was a black shopvac + fluidstuff which i think had problems to keep the dust inside (maybe some gaffer and new filter needed). the dyson was primarly for cleaning the main room and so on (as i remember) and not for the HM. we probably should also investigate where all the stuff is now and if we could reactivate some other vacs... On 2014-07-17 12:17, Joe Nassimian wrote:
I do agree with you Peter, I wasn't justifying anything, nor do I pretend that technology can solve a human problem.
This has to do more with common sense and education. So what do you do now to solve it? Perform a psychological and mental screening of people before they enter the metalab? Or take on the role of a parent (or yoda) and lecture every person that does a mistake?
Until we do, we can take steps to minimize the scope of mistakes possible. Having a dyson, which is intended for domestic cleaning, in a place like the metalab does not make sense to me. The dyson is not made for places like the metalab.
That of course does not justify the misuse of the dyson. And it doesn't justify not being responsible after you do a mistake. The least humanly expected would have been to clean up the mess you create and learn a lesson from it. I'm sorry if I sounded like I was justifying things, which I'm not. And although I did think that Hobbes calling himself the Oberputze was funny, I did feel sorry for him for being in that very annoying situation.
Now that being said, we do need a better cleaning equipment at the metalab, and this thread kind of turned into a motivator to build one.
Armin, just let me know when you'll be working on it at the lab, and I'll show up with one of the turbines, apart from that, I'm not sure how else I can help.
On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 1:45 PM, Peter Franck <vic@ccc.de> wrote:
Why dont we design a new Metalab where we don't need vacuum cleaners at all due to nano-engineered surfaces?
Come on. Somebody fucked it up completely unnecessarily and that sucks because it doesnt just apply to vacuums but as well to tools and other things. That is why people move back home their stuff to find it in a sane state when needed.
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On 2014-07-17 10:17, Joe Nassimian wrote:
Now that being said, we do need a better cleaning equipment at the metalab, and this thread kind of turned into a motivator to build one. I too, do not endorse the abuse of equipment. A vacuum cleaner with the outlined features is however desirable in it self (but see below).
Armin, just let me know when you'll be working on it at the lab, and I'll show up with one of the turbines, apart from that, I'm not sure how else I can help. At the moment, I'm pretty busy, so I can just supervise a construction and contribute literature like the paper about cyclones. Throwing together a (simple) model on my CAD system may be possible, but I don't like to promise it (soon).
So my approach is, to start with the frame and the gas washer. If we don't get the washer right, the entire project is doomed. The cyclone is there, just to prevent coarse material that might block them, to enter the nozzles of the washer. (A sieve would serve that purpose too, so it does a bit more ;-) http://www.ciao.de/Doring_Orky__Test_1074330 http://members.aon.at/orky/orky/orky.pdf Well, after reading the 2nd test report, my enthusiasm for a water filter/ gas washer is more or less gone. Before we put any effort into that project, several points have to be clarified... Regards, Armin
Actually the situation gets confusing: the reports claim, that e.g. the Orky (http://www.orky.de/) does not clean dust very, but what I've seen myself is, that a filter in the air stream out of my Siemens vac, (sucked by the Orky )became grey in minutes, while the same type of filter (?) in the outlet stream of the Orky stayed absolutely white, after a much longer time. Conspiracy theories lurk everywhere - the only remedy is measuring ourselves... On 2014-07-17 11:11, Armin Faltl wrote:
On 2014-07-17 10:17, Joe Nassimian wrote:
Now that being said, we do need a better cleaning equipment at the metalab, and this thread kind of turned into a motivator to build one. I too, do not endorse the abuse of equipment. A vacuum cleaner with the outlined features is however desirable in it self (but see below).
Armin, just let me know when you'll be working on it at the lab, and I'll show up with one of the turbines, apart from that, I'm not sure how else I can help. At the moment, I'm pretty busy, so I can just supervise a construction and contribute literature like the paper about cyclones. Throwing together a (simple) model on my CAD system may be possible, but I don't like to promise it (soon).
So my approach is, to start with the frame and the gas washer. If we don't get the washer right, the entire project is doomed. The cyclone is there, just to prevent coarse material that might block them, to enter the nozzles of the washer. (A sieve would serve that purpose too, so it does a bit more ;-)
http://www.ciao.de/Doring_Orky__Test_1074330 http://members.aon.at/orky/orky/orky.pdf
Well, after reading the 2nd test report, my enthusiasm for a water filter/ gas washer is more or less gone. Before we put any effort into that project, several points have to be clarified...
Regards, Armin
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Teilnehmer (5)
-
Armin Faltl -
Hobbes -
Joe Nassimian -
Peter Franck -
Sebastian Bachmann